Why is it still illegal to pay for sex?
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07/19/08 12:05
dominixe |
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I found this particularly good article discussing this question which I am sure that we all have debated.
quote : Prostitution is currently legal in virtually all developed nations, though often surrounded by restrictions and regulations. It is illegal everywhere in the United States except Nevada and, by a legal quirk, in Rhode Island if all transactions are conducted in a private residence. Yet prostitution is perhaps the ultimate victimless crime: a consensual transaction in which both parties are supposedly committing a crime, and the person most likely to be charged—the one selling sex—is also the one most likely to be viewed as the victim. (A bizarre inversion of this situation occurs in Sweden, where, as a result of feminist pressure to treat prostitutes as victims, it is now a crime to pay for sex but not to offer it for sale.) It is sometimes claimed that the true victims of prostitution are the johns' wives. But surely women whose husbands are involved in noncommercial—and sometimes quite expensive—extramarital affairs are no less victimized. Politicians and law enforcement trot out the "usual suspects" and red herrings to justify their positions: quote : Another common claim is that prostitution causes direct harm by contributing to the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS. However, that may be the reddest herring of them all. In Australia, where sex for money is legal, the rate of HIV infection among female prostitutes is so low that prostitution has been removed from the list of known risk factors in HIV surveillance. In the U.S., reliable data are more difficult to come by, but a 1987 Centers for Disease Control study likewise found very low infection rates among prostitutes. quote : As with other victimless crimes, the criminalization of prostitution creates a vast breeding ground for corruption, hypocrisy, and morally dubious law enforcement tactics. ... Selective enforcement is the norm, as is entrapment. Anti-prostitution campaigns are also frequently accompanied by the Big Brother-ish practice of state-sponsored public shaming. ... But there is a vast difference between social stigma and criminal prosecution, between personal moral judgment and the nanny state. Well put. Full article by Cathy Young | May 7, 2007 is here. -------------------- An elegant courtesan among Calgary escorts, providing vip executive escort companionship to business travelers. Experience elite GFE, fetish, and domination services from the best of Calgary escorts. |
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07/19/08 16:37
Kotikkk |
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Very clever and lucid article. I daresay the author is not a Pen Prostitute herself.
-------------------- Is your Pussy tight and juicy???
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07/23/08 01:01
paulh50 |
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I have to agree with much of what the study states. If prostution was legalized there would be less health issues. less victimization of the sex workers but it would mean leagalizing a profession that the general population objects too. It would allow law enforcement to concetrate on real crimes of victims and to provide safety to those involed in sex professions. As long as people hold on to their old ideas of sex being immoral and not a natural urge and a part of life I'm affraid that we are in for a long battle that will have to be fought throught the legislatures of many countries to legalize.
It is much like the phohabiton laws of the 20's and 30's to legaly demand people to act in accoradance to what the Political Eliets deemed what was good for us and they were the only ones to make our decesions for us. |
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09/12/10 09:14
Michael2015 |
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Whether a man or woman is married or not or wotever type of relationship, each pays more in the long run for sex. U're gonna pay for sex one way or the other. Why not pay for it w/o any strings attached? I'd rather have fun w/the lady w/o getting emotionally involved.
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10/12/10 09:25
daniccaramos |
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quote Michael2015 : Whether a man or woman is married or not or wotever type of relationship, each pays more in the long run for sex. U're gonna pay for sex one way or the other. Why not pay for it w/o any strings attached? I'd rather have fun w/the lady w/o getting emotionally involved. thats what all my clients say to have sex with no commitment ,no string attached just for fun .some say hiring escort is cheating in someway its true but in other ways it could be .. |
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10/12/10 10:15
ToniW |
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quote daniccaramos : quote Michael2015 : Whether a man or woman is married or not or wotever type of relationship, each pays more in the long run for sex. U're gonna pay for sex one way or the other. Why not pay for it w/o any strings attached? I'd rather have fun w/the lady w/o getting emotionally involved. thats what all my clients say to have sex with no commitment ,no string attached just for fun .some say hiring escort is cheating in someway its true but in other ways it could be .. Sorry, such a comparison sucks! You assume that persons live in a relationship just because of sex. If it is like this, poor persons... I remember another thread here where someone compares a real date to an encounter with an escort. At the end the result was that dating an escort was cheaper. This sucks, as well. Finally let's come back to the question of this thread. In some countries it is illegal to pay for sex because the law is like this. LOL Why is the law like this? May be it is justified and if it is not justified, then the law is not changed because there are not enough persons who raise their voice against this law. Why don't they become active? - Well, there are many reasons depending on the related countries. Discussing such a topic in a one-sided forum is one thing, doing it in civil life is a different topic. |
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10/12/10 10:29
ToniW |
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quote paulh50 : I have to agree with much of what the study states. If prostution was legalized there would be less health issues. less victimization of the sex workers but it would mean leagalizing a profession that the general population objects too. With regards to the USA I agree but for third world countries a legalisation would make an exploitation of the women very easy. In Sweden on the other hand prostitution was legal for a very long time. Not long ago they have changed their laws there. Offering sex for money is legal, but paying for sex is illegal. Think of the consequences of such a law for providers and clients. Aren't they clever these Swedes? |
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10/20/10 18:49
katrinaNW |
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quote ToniW : quote paulh50 : I have to agree with much of what the study states. If prostution was legalized there would be less health issues. less victimization of the sex workers but it would mean leagalizing a profession that the general population objects too. With regards to the USA I agree but for third world countries a legalisation would make an exploitation of the women very easy. In Sweden on the other hand prostitution was legal for a very long time. Not long ago they have changed their laws there. Offering sex for money is legal, but paying for sex is illegal. Think of the consequences of such a law for providers and clients. Aren't they clever these Swedes? The interviews with sex workers after the law changes (the report is available online, if you google for info) say that a few consequences include: 1.street workers afraid to carry condoms. They are used as evidence for prostitution by the cops, so there is a lot more risky activities. Less time also to size up the guy before jumping in the car. 2. Good customers are nervous, and stay away. Dangerous customers continue to seek out sex workers, and take advantage of this new law. 3. street workers have to work in darker corners and deserted streets. If picked up (by the reduced # of clients) they have to go to an even more remote and deserted location. 4. Indoor workers have to leave home and family, commute to Norway, pay more for childcare, and no longer able to see their families every day. --------------------------------- I can't see the US ever joining the rest of the civilized nations and legalizing prostitution. Even tho they have a working model in Nevada, which could have the same protocols, laws and regulations applied nationwide, they are just too backward to make that move. New Zealand is my role model. I hope to have their model applied to Canada, with the recent changes to some of the laws surrounding our legal prostititution. |
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10/20/10 22:19
squirtingnymph |
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If it is impossible in the US to legalize prostitution more so in the Philippines. It is a pity that they still see this profession as something bad. I would say this again the sex industry is a need just like any other industry. There is nothing wrong with hiring a prostitute, so long as it doesn’t become your addiction AND doesn’t end up always replacing the human need for you to have real relationships with other people. Saying that though, some people just don’t have the time to have real relationships with other people. For example, there are men or women, who travel all the time & are never in a city longer than a day or two. They need companionship & therefore seeing escorts/ prostitute on a regular basis will help them fulfill that need.
The only other time I think it’s a negative thing, is if you become so addicted to seeing providers that you end up going broke. It’s just that most people are very religious & think they know it all. They often spout nonsense they know nothing about even though they themselves often see providers. (do what I say, not what I do). They are called hypocrites. These religious people think that sex is only meant for procreational reasons. There are many religions that teach that sex isn’t about having fun, it’s about having children. So these religious minded people have brainwashed people (society) into thinking sex shouldn’t be fun & enjoyable which then of course contradicts how people feel about it when they do have sex or make love & it confuses them on some level. Making love is one of THE most beautiful acts a human can have because it bonds us in such a way like no other. People who were at the top levels of these religions have been controlling human beings for thousands of years. They put fear into the people & when people weren’t intelligent enough to think for themselves (the majority is still not that intelligent), they just followed whatever their religion told them to do. And since they didn’t want to seem like an outcast in society (if you were shunned back then, it was bad news), they just conformed to whatever the majority was saying or doing. People are still very much like this. They put on a face for their community & then only behind closed doors act as they truly are. It’s very sad to me. Religions have been telling people for YEARS, what is THEIR definition of moral & immoral & the bottom line is… NO ONE can tell you what is right or wrong for you BUT YOU! You are in control of your life no one else is, no other person, no other community, no so called religion, etc., BUT these people have you convinced & brainwashed into thinking that some faceless entity called god decides what is right vs. what is wrong & that’s just not true. The way you can determine if something is right or wrong for you is this… Does it make you happy? And I don’t mean just for 5 minutes, I mean does it REALLY make you happy & smile all over your body? Does it leave you with your stomach feeling nauseous or does it give you a headache? Meaning, it’s making you feel like you are doing something wrong? If you feel happy, than it’s a great decision for you at that moment in time. (remember, what makes you happy today isn’t always going to make you feel happy tomorrow. We all change & what we want in life changes & that’s fine, that’s part of life) If what you are doing makes you feel shameful (not because other people are telling you this, but because YOU are feeling this), then it’s not a healthy choice for you. But there in lies the question, does it make you feel shameful because you are still being brainwashed by religion & society EVEN if you are not religious? Or are you able to clearly think for yourself & decide that yes, it’s making me feel negative & therefore I better stop doing it. Many non religious people still hold the same opinions as religious people because those opinions have been passed down in their family for centuries. They have been brain washed into having that belief, so my suggestion is to unbrainwash your mind & start with a clean slate. Start thinking for yourself no matter what the topic is. |
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10/20/10 22:48
ToniW |
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Well, it is certainly a lot about hypocrisy, too. Opportunism is another point.
There are countries where you cannot have an open and fair discussion about this topic. You well mentioned some reasons. By the way, last year I stayed in the Philippines for business. The topic has been how to promote tourism. The minister in charge mentioned, seriously or not, that it could be necessary to "burn" more of local women to promote tourism. This approach is well known. Prostitution is tolerated, but not legal. At the end there is a high level of arbitrary, if and when the law is enforced. There is no real safety for the ladies. It is not about religion, or moral, only. It is a business where the ladies should not become too powerful. |
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10/21/10 08:10
daniccaramos |
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quote ToniW : Well, it is certainly a lot about hypocrisy, too. Opportunism is another point. There are countries where you cannot have an open and fair discussion about this topic. You well mentioned some reasons. By the way, last year I stayed in the Philippines for business. The topic has been how to promote tourism. The minister in charge mentioned, seriously or not, that it could be necessary to "burn" more of local women to promote tourism. This approach is well known. Prostitution is tolerated, but not legal. At the end there is a high level of arbitrary, if and when the law is enforced. There is no real safety for the ladies. It is not about religion, or moral, only. It is a business where the ladies should not become too powerful. unlike your country ours have laws against prostitution the problem is in enforcing it..many of our law enforcer are looking the other way coz some of them receives money just to keep quiet so its very hard here .women who does this trade have no protection and they are on their own.. |
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11/19/10 06:06
daniccaramos |
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Buying gifts and dinners does not get you prosecuted, yet spending an equivalent amount of money in a direct transaction is illegal. As with other victimless crimes, the criminalization of prostitution creates a vast breeding ground for corruption, hypocrisy, and morally dubious law enforcement tactics
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11/19/10 06:33
ToniW |
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quote daniccaramos : Buying gifts and dinners does not get you prosecuted, yet spending an equivalent amount of money in a direct transaction is illegal. As with other victimless crimes, the criminalization of prostitution creates a vast breeding ground for corruption, hypocrisy, and morally dubious law enforcement tactics Danicca, the first part of your statement fails. An Invitation of a female friend is not equal to an "unsealed envelope". The second part presents the questions which must be asked. What justifies a prohibition of prostitution? There is no general NOTHING. It depends. I agree, that a prohibition is abused by different groups. I.e. blackmailing police, pimps, clients who do not pay ... On the one hand an illegal business is relatively often close to organized criminality, but on the other hand legalization of prostitution would enforce crimes like human trafficking and other crimes in some countries. The middle way to tolerate prostitution unofficially is a problem, too. Countries having a first world judiciary and a prohibition of prostitution cannot stop law enforcement (USA). Law enforcement cannot be relative for a first world nation. The countries where prostitution is legal, face problems, too. Often we hear, it is a normal business. In which normal business are persons blackmailed, raped, and even killed? Ok, under the protection of legality these risks can be reduced. Finally we have the "morality" of a society. Providers prefer being anonymous, although the business is legal. There is no global solution in my opinion. Having a fair public debate would be very helpful, already. Please convince me, if you think I am wrong. |
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11/19/10 07:12
daniccaramos |
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quote ToniW : quote daniccaramos : Buying gifts and dinners does not get you prosecuted, yet spending an equivalent amount of money in a direct transaction is illegal. As with other victimless crimes, the criminalization of prostitution creates a vast breeding ground for corruption, hypocrisy, and morally dubious law enforcement tactics Danicca, the first part of your statement fails. An Invitation of a female friend is not equal to an "unsealed envelope". The second part presents the questions which must be asked. What justifies a prohibition of prostitution? There is no general NOTHING. It depends. I agree, that a prohibition is abused by different groups. I.e. blackmailing police, pimps, clients who do not pay ... On the one hand an illegal business is relatively often close to organized criminality, but on the other hand legalization of prostitution would enforce crimes like human trafficking and other crimes in some countries. The middle way to tolerate prostitution unofficially is a problem, too. Countries having a first world judiciary and a prohibition of prostitution cannot stop law enforcement (USA). Law enforcement cannot be relative for a first world nation. The countries where prostitution is legal, face problems, too. Often we hear, it is a normal business. In which normal business are persons blackmailed, raped, and even killed? Ok, under the protection of legality these risks can be reduced. Finally we have the "morality" of a society. Providers prefer being anonymous, although the business is legal. There is no global solution in my opinion. Having a fair public debate would be very helpful, already. Please convince me, if you think I am wrong. it depends on the country ,maybe your country have laws about legality ..in our country our trade is kept secret it inhibits us to trade openly ..our law enforcement is always arresting all sorts of prostitution via web,or clubs massage parlors etc... |
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11/19/10 07:25
ToniW |
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Yes, I know about the situation in your country.
You will agree with me, that there is no medium-term change in sight. |
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